Hand Furled Leaders

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Postby ccorneli » Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:34 am

I have exclusively fished the board or jig furled leaders for a couple of months. Last week when this was posted I attempted several, made a modification, and am very pleased with the results. The modification is to add an additional level of taper and reduce the bulk of the surgeon's knot. I accomplished this by following the first steps of the method shown above. After achieving the half-length double-strand twist and folding into thirds, I twist half of the length (1/6 original mono length) and then tie a surgeons knot with a single stand around the other 3. Then continue twisting the one remaining free strand around the double stranded and tie another surgeon's knot with the free stand around the double strand. This leaves a 4 strand butt, 3 strand mid, and 2 strand connection. The two separate surgeons knots are much less noticeable in my opinion. I fished it last week and think it is comparable to the jig furled leaders, and superior to tapered leaders.
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Postby nielson » Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:16 am

I don't completely follow but I like the concept. I'll study it some more and give it a try. While I'm not so sure about the need for a three part leader, I like the idea of having a smaller knot.
Your pal, Jim

PS: I deserve some credit for not saying: That's a neat new twist on these leaders.
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Postby boissage » Sun Apr 11, 2010 7:26 pm

I finally had a chance to try out the hand-furled leader. It performed well casting a heavy #2 WB. I would say it turned over better than my hand tied leaders, and was easier to make. I assume that it will last longer as well. Next, I'm going to twist up a longer one.
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Postby nielson » Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:53 pm

Surgeon Knot Alternative

Image

Ever since I started messing with these I haven't been particularly happy about the way the surgeon knot looks. When I use the .012 " mono it looks OK but with the .014, it ends up pretty bulky and not a very straight connection. Seemed a bit off and I've been trying to find an alternative knot to use.

Well I found it and it's basically just a nail knot (or whip finish) but with a little different tying method. The end result is a small knot with both lines aligned. Here's how I do it:

1. When I double the mono over to start the first twist, I leave one of the legs about 8" longer than the other. When I finish the first twist, that 8" piece is still there and untwisted.
2. Make the next fold and twist as normal and you still have the 8" untwisted piece when you're done. This is when you would put in the surgeons knot.
3. Instead, bring the tippet loop end along side the 4 twisted strand where you'd tie the surgeons knot. The loop of the tippet end should face up toward the butt end loop. Hold it in place with your thumb and forefinger. (You'll later use this loop to pull the tag end of the mono piece back through the wraps you made - similar to wrapping a rod guide or whipping the end of a rope.)
4. Make 4-8 successive wraps of the single untwisted piece around the 4 strands. (Wrap toward the butt end) As you make each wrap, Hold it in place with the same thumb and forefinger you are using to hold the other lines.
5. After making the wraps, stick the tag end through the tippet loop and hold in place with the same thumb and forefinger that holds the wraps.
6. With your free hand, pull on the tippet line to pull the loop all the way out along with end of the mono piece you wrapped around the other strands.
7. Straighten the wraps as necessary and snug the knot by pulling on both the mono piece and the butt section of the leader. It should snug nice and tight forming the nail knot.
8. Snip off the tag ends of the two pieces of mono at the end of the knot.

It's a little tedious to do but can be done with out nails or special tools. And because you are not using a nail, tool or tube, you can make your knot wraps tight right from the start and there is less chance of them overlapping or crossing.

Another thing, since you only make the knot using a single strand it makes for a small, smooth knot at the point where the leader transitions from 4 to two strands.

Thought you'd like to know. Your pal, Jim
Last edited by nielson on Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Big Fish » Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:01 am

They seemed to cast fine. I was only using a short one with a heavy fly but they worked fine for what I was doing. I missed spring steelhead season (again) but I'll try them in August for salmon and summer run steelies this year...
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Postby nielson » Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:34 am

Surgeon's Knot Alternative (MORE)

Here's a sketch explaining how I've been finishing off these leaders. It makes for a more compact knot on the leader. No tools needed, just educated fingers. Really simple and fast to do once you've tied one.
Your pal, Jim

Image
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Postby bbell » Wed May 05, 2010 11:29 pm

I'm a little disappointed in you Jim, this seems like it would be a lot of complicated tomfoolery in your book.

In all seriousness, neat post and I think I'll give it a shot after hearing so much about furled leaders in the last ten years.
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Postby bbell » Thu May 06, 2010 12:11 am

Upon further reflection I'm pretty sure this is a sign of the impending Apocalypse.
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Postby bbell » Thu May 06, 2010 12:11 am

I'm a little disappointed in you Jim, this seems like it would be a lot of complicated tomfoolery in your book.

In all seriousness, neat post and I think I'll give it a shot after hearing so much about furled leaders in the last ten years.
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Postby SmallieSam » Thu May 06, 2010 7:57 am

bbell wrote:Upon further reflection I'm pretty sure this is a sign of the impending Apocalypse.


Didn't George Orwell or Authur C. Clark make reference to this as well in their writings?
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Postby bbell » Thu May 06, 2010 4:18 pm

Next thing we know he'll be pontificating on blending dyes to get the precise coloration he wants when tying flies for selective shoalies.
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Postby nielson » Thu May 06, 2010 5:01 pm

bbell,
I'm glad these have captured you're interest. I think you'll be surprised how simple they are to whip up and amazed at the end result.
your pal, Jim
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Postby bbell » Fri May 07, 2010 10:28 pm

I hate to say it but my three attempts with 10 pound Trilene ended in disaster. Maybe I need to try 15 pound mono...
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Postby croaker » Thu May 20, 2010 10:53 pm

nielson wrote:Surgeon's Knot Alternative (MORE)

Here's a sketch explaining how I've been finishing off these leaders. It makes for a more compact knot on the leader. No tools needed, just educated fingers. Really simple and fast to do once you've tied one.
Your pal, Jim

Image


I twisted one last nite and used yer alternative. Much smoother, smaller knot. Gonna water test it this weekend.

Thanks,

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Postby nielson » Fri May 21, 2010 11:57 am

Good for you, Croaker. Let us know how you like the things. I've been using them for the past few weeks and they seem just fine to me.

bbell, What kind of problems are you having? The only problem should be the tag ends getting tangled up. The trick there is to tend to the lines (run the twists out) periodically and keep them apart. My technique is to stop after about 40 twists, set the twist point under a coffee cup to hold it in place and then work the twists out to the ends on each line. Takes about 30 seconds and then pick it back up and start twisting again.

I built one this AM in the office right before work. I wasn't paying attention and ended up with a snarl I couldn't untangle when I was only about half-way through the first twist. Rather than toss the whole thing out, I cut out the knotted snarl (about a foot of line) reattached the sections with a blood knot and continued the twist. Leader looks OK and the blood knot, while noticeable, doesn't seem to be a problem.

And Bill, rather than go with a heavier line, you might want to try something lighter. I've been using 10 lb Trilene for quite a few of them and with the exception of the one this AM, I haven't had any problems.

Your pal, Jim
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